Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 00:34:05 -
[1] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=471349&find=unread
Windows is a 3rd party application<-----The decision to prohibit people from using portions of each game into one window needs to be reversed. I can understand input automation and broadcasts but this particular part needs to be recinded. You can already almost do it with clever window positioning of the clients. CCP needs to be less about a player cannot get advantage over another and should go in the direction of a account cannot gain a advantage. I run 16 accounts and while i am in compliance with these rulings i feel they need to be changed.
:edit If multiboxing is allowed according to the eula...shouldnt someone who is mulitboxing and not cheating or botting as free as possible to make each of those clients approach the same effectivness as if it were their sole account as humanly possible and only take human error and the time to click the buttons into account for any degradation.
Nuances matter. Might have legal take another look. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 02:00:30 -
[2] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Just gonna leave this here...
"Third party applications are programs written to work within operating systems, but are written by individuals or companies other than the provider of the operating system. "
Eve is a 3rd party app. Not windows.
And since operating these 3rd party app's, does most certainly provide an advantage they are correctly and should remain against eula.
Stalk much? Windows is a application that operates at a high languge communcating a interface to the computers binary code.
Windows is not the computer or the computers native environment. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 02:13:26 -
[3] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Just posting in the directed thread.
"Windows is a application that operates at a high languge communcating a interface to the computers binary code." Does not make windows a 3rd party app.
Besides you can try to play semantics all you want.
"having overviews from other EVE clients as overlays on one EVE client would allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows. Similarly, overlays using elements from a second or multiple other EVE clients to allow the player to activate modules etc. on those other game instances without switching to the other client windows are clearly in violation of our rules."
Says it all. Doesn't matter if you like it, doesn't matter how you want to interpret the definition of a 3rd party app. You say you can do the same thing just using windows... then do it. Then the eula won't make any difference.
A. It makes windows a app and last i checked ccp does not have any IP on windows. B.If the issue is getting real time data without clicking on the client then that would mean running more than 1 app at a time would be a bannable offense because having more than one window does give real time data.
words matter. I feel you have been pretty outdone. Thanks for playing. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 02:22:51 -
[4] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Just gonna post this for you one more time...
"Third party applications are programs written to work within operating systems, but are written by individuals or companies other than the provider of the operating system. "
And from another source... "Third party software refers to programs that are developed by companies other than the company that developed the computer's operating system."
So unless you can tell me what operating system windows operates under then you're just continuing to speak out of the wrong orifice. Your argument reeks of desperation at defending your isk cow.
You keep posting a quote from wisegeeks like it matters? |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 02:24:52 -
[5] - Quote
"a program (as a word processor or a spreadsheet) that performs one of the major tasks for which a computer is used" from the dictionary. Id say being a interface that communicates high language to binary fits that role. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 02:30:21 -
[6] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Death Reactor wrote:"a program (as a word processor or a spreadsheet) that performs one of the major tasks for which a computer is used" from the dictionary. Id say being a interface that communicates high language to binary fits that role. Making up your own definitions doesn't really have binding on a EULA written up by lawyers that are better at this whole semantics game than you are.
Sorry i didnt make it up. the dictionary did. Lot more credible than your wisegeeks link. Simply put when you get to the heart of it windows is a application and words matter and any lawyer will tell you this. 3rd party application is any application not developed by ccp. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 02:31:07 -
[7] - Quote
Buzz Orti wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:...what operating system windows operates under then ... Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system. Negative logic rule.
Doesnt need to operate under a operating system. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 02:48:37 -
[8] - Quote
Buzz Orti wrote:Death Reactor wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:...what operating system windows operates under then ... Buzz Orti: "Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system. Negative logic rule." Doesnt need to operate under a operating system. Daemun Khanid wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:...what operating system windows operates under then ... Buzz Orti: "Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system. Negative logic rule." My point exactly. Exactly and windows is an operating system application which makes it a separate and special type of application as are all operating systems.
Except that any special relationship such as windows is not noted in the eula. There is no exception explicitly said.
and to my stalker "of or relating to a person or group besides the two primarily involved in a situation." 3rd party google+common knowledge. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 02:49:51 -
[9] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You can pop as many definitions as you want, it's pretty much irrelevant. A third party application is any application not developed by the first party developer. In this case the first party developer would be CCP, so they class anything outside of EVE as third party, including the operating system. You cannot chop up your EVE client regardless of whether or not you are doing it through you OS directly on an app installed on it.
|

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 02:58:06 -
[10] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:See edited post above. You're too quick responding for me.  As I was trying to say, it's all just semantics in an attempt to circumvent eula. 3rd party can be used to describe pretty much anything depending on what device or software you are considering the 1st party. Anything that runs in windows not written by microsoft is third party from the operating system. The operating system (if it's windows and microsoft didn't themselves manufacture the hardware) is considered 3rd party to the hard ware developer. If EvE is the 1st party than anything not written by CCP is 3rd party and they make it very clear that they have the leeway to determine what "3rd party" software involvement to allow and what not to allow. Quoting myself because I simply can't edit fast enough to prevent double posting every time. You can argue the definition all you want, I can accept the consideration of windows being 3rd party in relation to an EvE client. Fine and dandy, the eula still has the bases well and fully covered.
That leeway is simply unenforcment. Picking and choosing. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 03:00:18 -
[11] - Quote
Buzz Orti wrote:Death Reactor wrote:...
Except that any special relationship such as windows is not noted in the eula. There is no exception explicitly said.
and to my stalker "of or relating to a person or group besides the two primarily involved in a situation." 3rd party google+common knowledge. ^^ Correction:Windows also runs on it's own hardware (not software) by the way, as it does run on IBM hardware and clone as well. Special relationship such as windows and MacOS or Linux? What is your definition is those OSes and how it is related to in the EULA. Also, the 3rd party license is not the same as the EULA. The contract, not treaty or convention is the difference, if not an exception explicitly said, whether relevant or not, or omitted... Guess what. News for you. Everything runs on hardware, some simply need the help of windows to operate in. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 03:08:43 -
[12] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Death Reactor wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:See edited post above. You're too quick responding for me.  As I was trying to say, it's all just semantics in an attempt to circumvent eula. 3rd party can be used to describe pretty much anything depending on what device or software you are considering the 1st party. Anything that runs in windows not written by microsoft is third party from the operating system. The operating system (if it's windows and microsoft didn't themselves manufacture the hardware) is considered 3rd party to the hard ware developer. If EvE is the 1st party than anything not written by CCP is 3rd party and they make it very clear that they have the leeway to determine what "3rd party" software involvement to allow and what not to allow. Quoting myself because I simply can't edit fast enough to prevent double posting every time. You can argue the definition all you want, I can accept the consideration of windows being 3rd party in relation to an EvE client. Fine and dandy, the eula still has the bases well and fully covered. That leeway is simply unenforcment. Picking and choosing. Which they quite literally reserve the right to do in the licensing agreement you agreed to when you started your account(s).
except that they have neither allowed or disallowed any specific programs within the eula The eula is what has been agreed to. and last i checked i didnt sign a eula that said windows ok, everything else no. Any alteration to the eula must be updated and reaccepted. If there was a specification of programs they must be in the eula and not some forum post that most people dont even read. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 03:11:18 -
[13] - Quote
Buzz Orti wrote:Death Reactor wrote: Guess what. News for you. Everything runs on hardware, some simply need the help of windows to operate in.
That is not news to me, and if you can make hardware and can't make OS to run software on, you will need to hire an entity to create it or do it or run it. Hardware is not designed to run software without OS. Even console systems like PS3 or other have their own OS. So, you are interpreting some of the info you mention as if to try to steal from me or try to discredit me, or both. Edit:The communication system is also unforgiving enough to cause blatant errors such as the omission of the quoted text from you, and make it too hard to verify how it occured and why enough to be at peace with it.
Yes everything has a operating system, except a device that does not have a operating system.No one is talking about hardware running without a operating system. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 03:30:47 -
[14] - Quote
Actually they couldnt ban anyone just because they do something they dont like. As the subscription is a contract. And i disagree that they have as much leeway as you claim. This brings me back to the overlays and having real time information. They have a issue with that. By having more than one client open at any one time you have that real time information. Windows does that. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 03:35:51 -
[15] - Quote
Buzz Orti wrote:Death Reactor wrote:Buzz Orti wrote:Death Reactor wrote: Guess what. News for you. Everything runs on hardware, some simply need the help of windows to operate in.
That is not news to me, and if you can make hardware and can't make OS to run software on, you will need to hire an entity to create it or do it or run it. Hardware is not designed to run software without OS. Even console systems like PS3 or other have their own OS. So, you are interpreting some of the info you mention as if to try to steal from me or try to discredit me, or both. Edit:The communication system is also unforgiving enough to cause blatant errors such as the omission of the quoted text from you, and make it too hard to verify how it occured and why enough to be at peace with it. Yes everything has a operating system, except a device that does not have a operating system.No one is talking about hardware running without a operating system. A device that does not have a operating system is not a hardware device that is considered to be a computer. I just did talk about hwardare running or , not running rather, without an operating system. Edit:(hardware not hwardare, I don't refer to radar, either radar on a carrier or with dropped carrier...) If you try to load an XT without a BIOS and OS floppy loaded to boot it, it will not run the OS. Edit 2:a :roll also was also added from a 3rd party, or 4th party.
I built my computer. before i installed a operating system it was still a computer. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 03:42:10 -
[16] - Quote
lol there you go again off topic. no one is talking about hardware rights.
edit: think he is just trolling |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 03:48:07 -
[17] - Quote
Death Reactor wrote:Buzz Orti wrote:Death Reactor wrote:Buzz Orti wrote:Death Reactor wrote: Guess what. News for you. Everything runs on hardware, some simply need the help of windows to operate in.
That is not news to me, and if you can make hardware and can't make OS to run software on, you will need to hire an entity to create it or do it or run it. Hardware is not designed to run software without OS. Even console systems like PS3 or other have their own OS. So, you are interpreting some of the info you mention as if to try to steal from me or try to discredit me, or both. Edit:The communication system is also unforgiving enough to cause blatant errors such as the omission of the quoted text from you, and make it too hard to verify how it occured and why enough to be at peace with it. Yes everything has a operating system, except a device that does not have a operating system.No one is talking about hardware running without a operating system. A device that does not have a operating system is not a hardware device that is considered to be a computer. I just did talk about hwardare running or , not running rather, without an operating system. Edit:(hardware not hwardare, I don't refer to radar, either radar on a carrier or with dropped carrier...) If you try to load an XT without a BIOS and OS floppy loaded to boot it, it will not run the OS. Edit 2:a :roll also was also added from a 3rd party, or 4th party. I built my computer. before i installed a operating system it was still a computer.
edit: to the stalker. Yes the eula is the contract. And therefore they cannot ban you because you do something they dont like. It has to be a violation of the eula specificly. And while inital discretion is theres according to the eula, once a decision has been made regarding a program it must be added to the eula and not some forum post that most players dont read and 0 players give their consent to. Cannot change the eula without a new eula and a forum post declaring new activities or programs being valid or invalid is a change in the eula. Before you could do it, now you cant= eula changed. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 04:05:23 -
[18] - Quote
in the event of (i) a breach of the EULA""
" confers an unfair benefit to players" if a player has 10 accounts and a player has 1 account that could be considered a unfair advantage. windows provides this capability. Also since multiboxing is allowed, the player with 10 accounts should have full access to those 10 accounts much like windows provides for, with overlays you are only utizing the 10 accounts properly for which the eula allows. 10 accounts vs 1 is not a unfair advantage that is not afforded by eula. And once again. For example, having overviews from other EVE clients as overlays on one EVE client would allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows., you get this from windows so no unfair advantage is gained by having overlays. Its all very contradictory and needs recinded. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 04:06:41 -
[19] - Quote
Edit: No where does it say they will nor is there a legal requirement for them to rewrite the eula to reflect specific situations nor does it prevent them from saying "it's ok today and you're banned for it next week... oh and then it's ok again" Their discretion means their discretion.""
There doesnt need to be a sentence requiring them to rewrite the eula when there is a change. If you could do it before under their discretion but cant now under their discretion, the eula has changed. And until a new eula is accepted the terms are under the old eula
edit: and since no new eula was put out, it is reasonable for a person to assume eula has not changed. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 04:13:36 -
[20] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:You seem to be missing the point in regards to the simple phrase, "in their discretion." I don't think you quite grasp that it's not only extremely vague but it's intentionally that way. The eula has not changed, their discretion has. Hence... "their discretion."
You dont seem to grasp how discretion from one eula to another can mean different things. old eula discretion ment that you could do it. New eula discretion means you cannot. Its the same word but has a different meaning. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 04:27:06 -
[21] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Death Reactor wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:You seem to be missing the point in regards to the simple phrase, "in their discretion." I don't think you quite grasp that it's not only extremely vague but it's intentionally that way. The eula has not changed, their discretion has. Hence... "their discretion." You dont seem to grasp how discretion from one eula to another can mean different things. old eula discretion ment that you could do it. New eula discretion means you cannot. Its the same word but has a different meaning. It means neither... It means they can decide on a case by case basis what to allow and what not to allow. You are seriously grasping at straws and I'm done wasting my time trying to talk any sense to the senseless. If you think you can interpret it however you want then go ahead. I'll look forward to your "I've been banned and it's not fair" post in GD.
Sorry if you feel that debunking your ideas are grasping at straws lol. It is as i said though. I really dont see any legal reasoning for me being banned though but you wait there and stalk for me maybe just maybe one day in thet far future(however long eve lasts) when I am done with eve i might show up there just to wave bye to my haters.
edit: it was not a case by case basis. No one was banned for overlays before this. Botting, broadcasting,scripts of that sort yes. But not overlays. Discretion meant there was a blanket acceptance or at least nonaction against it. When that discretion changed to a no regarding this subject then indeed the word discretion when pertaining to overlays had changed. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 04:42:58 -
[22] - Quote
Buzz Orti wrote:Death Reactor wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Death Reactor wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:You seem to be missing the point in regards to the simple phrase, "in their discretion." I don't think you quite grasp that it's not only extremely vague but it's intentionally that way. The eula has not changed, their discretion has. Hence... "their discretion." You dont seem to grasp how discretion from one eula to another can mean different things. old eula discretion ment that you could do it. New eula discretion means you cannot. Its the same word but has a different meaning. It means neither... It means they can decide on a case by case basis what to allow and what not to allow. You are seriously grasping at straws and I'm done wasting my time trying to talk any sense to the senseless. If you think you can interpret it however you want then go ahead. I'll look forward to your "I've been banned and it's not fair" post in GD. Sorry if you feel that debunking your ideas are grasping at straws lol. It is as i said though. I really dont see any legal reasoning for me being banned though but you wait there and stalk for me maybe just maybe one day in thet far future(however long eve lasts) when I am done with eve i might show up there just to wave bye to my haters. edit: it was not a case by case basis. No one was banned for overlays before this. Botting, broadcasting,scripts of that sort yes. But not overlays. Discretion meant there was a blanket acceptance or at least nonaction against it. When that discretion changed to a no regarding this subject then indeed the word discretion when pertaining to overlays had changed. Perhaps you banned me twice and I have to pay double to find out wheher or not. Perhaps you support this kind of activity and are only trying to bait me into committing myself or be off topic or God knows what. Perhaps, like me, you were unfairly banned 3 times already, as in 3 strikes in a baseball game.
lol i like you, your cool, alright in my book. |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 05:28:16 -
[23] - Quote
Now see this" GÇ£We do not endorse or condone the use of any third party applications or other software that modifies the client or otherwise confers an unfair benefit to players. We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications" Since multiboxing is explicity allowed then it is reasonable to assume that a player with 10 accounts will have a just advantage over a player with 1 account. It doesnt say ccp has some overly vague discretion that is solely their to determine what confers an unfair benefit and therefore having 10 fully capable accounts running appears to really not be a violation of eula. It is completly reasonable to expect 10 accounts vs one to be fair game according to eula and a overlay that affects windows and not the eve client appears to be not against eula.
|

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 05:49:39 -
[24] - Quote
Buzz Orti wrote:Death Reactor wrote:Now see this" GÇ£We do not endorse or condone the use of any third party applications or other software that modifies the client or otherwise confers an unfair benefit to players. We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications" Since multiboxing is explicity allowed then it is reasonable to assume that a player with 10 accounts will have a just advantage over a player with 1 account. It doesnt say ccp has some overly vague discretion that is solely their to determine what confers an unfair benefit and therefore having 10 fully capable accounts running appears to really not be a violation of eula. It is completly reasonable to expect 10 accounts vs one to be fair game according to eula and a overlay that affects windows and not the eve client appears to be not against eula.
I'm not gonna read the whole thing, I'm on screen keyboard, with USB external power as backup power, ups. They can do what they want. They designed it like that. Edit: It's not the ground. They may want details and explanations from you. I don't know you yet and if I do I didn't know until I get more info. If they mention reason x is why b happened, it doesn't really matter because of a. If you omit their concern it may be your responsibility. It may be a complain. If the complain is malicious or invalid how will they find out? Where is your analysis on balance of powers and why is it viable? Is your credit scientific, legal, educational or other? What about credit for art? What about NDA? Non-competition clauses?
The answer is probably 42 |

Death Reactor
Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 07:07:07 -
[25] - Quote
Buzz Orti wrote:Death Reactor wrote:Buzz Orti wrote:Death Reactor wrote:Now see this" GÇ£We do not endorse or condone the use of any third party applications or other software that modifies the client or otherwise confers an unfair benefit to players. We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications" Since multiboxing is explicity allowed then it is reasonable to assume that a player with 10 accounts will have a just advantage over a player with 1 account. It doesnt say ccp has some overly vague discretion that is solely their to determine what confers an unfair benefit and therefore having 10 fully capable accounts running appears to really not be a violation of eula. It is completly reasonable to expect 10 accounts vs one to be fair game according to eula and a overlay that affects windows and not the eve client appears to be not against eula.
I'm not gonna read the whole thing, I'm on screen keyboard, with USB external power as backup power, ups. They can do what they want. They designed it like that. Edit: It's not the ground. They may want details and explanations from you. I don't know you yet and if I do I didn't know until I get more info. If they mention reason x is why b happened, it doesn't really matter because of a. If you omit their concern it may be your responsibility. It may be a complain. If the complain is malicious or invalid how will they find out? Where is your analysis on balance of powers and why is it viable? Is your credit scientific, legal, educational or other? What about credit for art? What about NDA? Non-competition clauses? The answer is probably 42 I prefer a billion trillion. It's more worth it to me and every one can get a better share. I can't do much with $42, and I got engaged to my only future wife at 43. I would rather die without marrying someone else even if that meant war. I'm sure that is very common as in common law.
but 42 could be anything, it can even be a boat, we have always wanted a boat. |
|
|